27th May 2022 AMPstigator Season Two Marques Ogden
Episode Five The Overcomer
[00:00:06]
Lauren: From the National Football League to nationally acclaimed speaker and coach, but it's the journey in between those two titles, that's really created the man, Marques Ogden. After his time on the field, he lost his business, he lost his home, his car his money. He became a janitor and then embarked on a gut-wrenching journey to build everything back up again and find the other side of success. There's a lot we can learn from Marques and I'm honored to tell his story. This is Marques Ogden, The Overcomer.
[00:00:41]
Lauren: Marques.
Marques: Yes.
Lauren: Thanks for being here.
Marques: Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
Lauren: I like to start with a series of questions, I was about to say, three, it's not three. I like to start with a series of questions. You ready for them?
Marques: Do I have a choice?
Lauren: No.
Marques: Okay, so fire away.
Lauren: When was the best time in your life?
Marques: Mm, when I got married? Yeah, I'm about to say we've been together, now, almost seven years of marriage, together 10. And I'm definitely a better man today than I was when I first met her. So I would say being married would be the best day of my life, I would say that for sure.
Lauren: Does she know that you answer that way?
Marques: She will now.
Lauren: All right, conversely, when was the worst time in your life?
Marques: The day my father passed away, unexpectedly, he was 57, and it just wasn't expected. I mean, we knew he had a heart condition. He had open-heart surgery, made it through, things were recovering, and they get that call.
It was, probably, about maybe about 1:30, 1:45 in the morning, I was in Baltimore. I drove like a normal hour, halved that took me about an hour to get there. And then he was pronounced passed away at 03:15 or 03:16, and I got there about 03:20. So I missed my four-minutes, and that was, for sure, the worst day of my life without a doubt.
Lauren: What came up out of that for you?
Marques: It made me realize that life is short, I mean, my dad was only 57. So I try to live the life I am today for the fact that you don't know if tomorrow is promised, I mean, you, really, don't.
So I would tell my wife I love her every night, even if we are mad at each other. Though it's not very often we're mad at each other anymore but just do that. I'm always out of town, text her, "I have landed, I'm here." Little things like that. Just because with my dad I didn't get a chance to say I loved him before he passed away.
Because I remember the last time I saw him, I was in his hospital bedroom. Just checking on him and all that and that he wanted to take a nap, he was tired. So I said, "All right, I'll have to come back tomorrow." And I got to my car, I said, "Man, I didn't tell him I loved him." I said, "Should I go back?" I was like, "Nah, I'll see him tomorrow. I'll see him tomorrow." This is what you always say.
There was no tomorrow for that, I didn't see him tomorrow. So you have to really take each day and understand, and cherish it because it's not promised.
Lauren: How old were you when he passed?
Marques: 25.
Lauren: And where were you at that time in your life?
Marques: I was playing in NFL and it was hard. My brother also was playing in NFL, so I was 25, he was 31. So it was just hard on us because he raised us, by himself, from the time I was eight, my brother was 14.
So to have the guy, the person, that raised you all your life, especially last few years of your life by himself. Who sacrificed everything so you could have the best life and he was gone early. It was just not expected, and it was really hard to deal with and come back from because we lost our support system.
Lauren: Do you feel like you still think about him a lot?
Marques: Oh, all the time. I mean, my first ever tattoo was his nickname, his nickname was tiny. That was my first ever tattoo that I got playing for the Raves. I remember when I got it he was like, "What is this?" I'm like, "Dad, what do you mean? This is honoring you. This is your nickname." He was like, "I don't like the tattoos but if it's me it's okay, we're fine."
Lauren: Where is it, can we see it?
Marques: Yeah, it's right here. So T-I-N-Y that was the first one.
Lauren: Yeah, and then you've built everything around it?
Marques: Yeah, you could say I've added a few more since then. Most of my tattoos, I would say almost all of them, have some sort of family, or some sort of slogan, or some sort of saying. Like I have here, "Rome wasn't built in a day."
Which reminds me that in business and in life, it's not going to happen overnight, it's just not. Because anything worth having, you're going to have to work for and put the effort in because if you don't, it's not going to sustain itself.
Lauren: Right, when was your greatest moment of clarity in your life?
Marques: When I hit my rock bottom moment of clarity, as a custodian, working in down town Raleigh after I had lost everything. So when I moved to Raleigh, in 2013, April, I had lost my business, I had lost my home, I had lost my cars, I had lost everything. Money, credit cards, a lot of family, most of my friends, and I was basically at ground zero starting over again.
And the moral clarity came as a custodian, and I was working the night shift, which I didn't tell anybody. It was a job and I needed the job in more ways than one. Needed the job financially, but I also needed the job to actually wake myself up.
So it made me realize there was no accountability in my life, no responsibility in my life. And because of that everything that happened in my life, all the shortcomings was my fault, nobody else's. So when I had that, I call it my spoiled milk moment. When somebody would throw at me nasty, protruding garbage, horrible, spoiled milk over my body, my skin, and my clothes. That was my moment of clarity.
That was my, "Whoa." And basically, I think God was trying to tell me, "Hey, look, Marques, you're here. You're not going to be able to call anybody or wave a wand, this is not a movie. There's nobody coming to save you from this curve.
You have two choices, one, you can sit here on this curve and play victim mode." And I saw Marcellus Wiley put something today on Instagram, it says, "I'm from the hood, but I'm not from victimhood."
Lauren: Mh-hmm.
Marques: I thought that was really great. And that's where I was at, victim mode. Saying, "No one cares, Marques, about your business failure. No one cares about you losing your money, no one cares."
So you either stay here in victim mode, right here on this curve. Live the life of always saying what you could have been or, worse yet, what you were, you were an NFL athlete, you were a great athlete. And saying, "Oh, I could have been this, or I could have been that." Or you can get up and say, "I can be this. I can do that." And move forward.
When we had Michael Strahan on our podcast a couple of weeks ago, we published his episode which was amazing. He told me his father said, "It's not if you can do it, it's when." So for me, it was like, "Okay, when are you going to get off this curve? When are you going to stop complaining? When are you going to stop blaming other people?" And that's what it took.
Lauren: Yeah, you do have to get to the other side of it. You have to believe you have to get to the other side of it. Because so many people resign to it get stuck in suffering. You just get stuck there and say, "This is my slog."
Marques: I have a question for you. Why do you think that is?
Lauren: I do think victimhood is the thing. I think that's the word that we don't want to embrace, but we almost feel like sometimes victimization can be like home base for us. Like, "I'm comfortable here. There's no one else that can help me."
I think part of that, too, is fear, a fear of jumping out, a fear of going to the next thing. Because, at least, when you're suffering, you know what that is. Like, "Okay, I know what this is. Yeah, it sucks, but I'm just going to stay here because anything else I do I'll fail at."
I think it's a fear of, "What if I succeed? What if I do get out?" All right, "What if I fail again, I'm still afraid of failing again." So I think, probably, fear is the reason that encapsulates us, it holds us down like a lid
Marques: How about this, it's easy.
Lauren: Oh, yeah, it could be.
Marques: No, it's easy. It's easier to stay in that mode. It was easy for me between April 2013 and September 2013, to say, "My partner's fault. The contractors' fault. The developers' fault. My employees' fault."
It was always an easy out for me. "Marques, why are you here in this situation, what happened to all your businesses, to your money?" "My partner, my employees, the developer, the clients, everybody." It's just easy to say that.
Lauren: Mh-hmm.
Marques: And then with that moment, I was like, "Wait a second, you need to take the hard road, which is looking in the mirror." Michael Jackson's great song, "Man in the mirror". You got to look at yourself, and I feel that's what was really missing from my life. It was that whole process of like, "You need to take the hard road and stop blaming everybody else for your failures."
Lauren: Was that your turning point?
Marques: Oh, yeah, without a doubt. Because if I didn't have that turning point, I don't know when I'd wake up or if I'd ever do, because when I was doing football, training, all that type of stuff, again, it was easy.
I fell back into what I knew coaching football and running 7 on 7 Camps. Being a small business person, I was making 25, 30k a year just playing it safe. And when I had that wake-up call, I said, "I can do more than this, but are you willing to make the commitment to do it?" And without that moment, I don't know if I would have gotten gone forward.
Lauren: And what does that physically feel like for you? When you think about that moment, you think about the turning point, that clarity, where do you feel it and can you describe what that feels like?
Marques: Well, you feel it in your gut because it's a fear, "It's a fear" it's a feeling of fear, anxiousness, stress. It's a feeling of, "Wow, what's going to happen next?" And, so, you have to make it okay to not be okay at times. Because, again, just because you start something, it doesn't mean it's going to work. So I started speaking in 2013 September, I didn't get a paid job for two and a half years.
Lauren: Yeah, tell me about that. Because I'm sure people said, "This is not what you do. You do football, you do physical, your size, you're this, you're that, you're all these things." And people want to keep you in this box, almost, right?
Marques: Right.
Lauren: And, so, when you said, "I want to speak." What was the initial reaction people were giving you?
Marques: "Why are you doing that? You're never going to be the next Tony Robbins. What value do you have? What's your story? What's your action steps? Who are you? Why should we listen to you?" I heard it all.
Lauren: And do you think that's fair, that people said that to you?
Marques: Is it fair? No. Is it reality? Yeah, that's the reality. You're going to face adversity, nos, the fear, the stress on your journey. Especially if you're doing something that can be great.
Lauren: Oh, let's dig into that. So what was it that you were doing that was great?
Marques: you know, what I was doing was I was owning the fact that I failed in life. And everybody said, "Well, you don't fail, there's no failure, you learn." And I hear you. But let's be real, I failed, let's call it what it is. When you go into Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, lose your home, all your money, it's a failure.
Now, it doesn't mean you can't learn from the failure, that's on you. Are you going to, actually, sit back and evaluate what happened? Are you going to be real with yourself? Okay, let's talk about business, are you going to look at the marketing of your business, the sales, operations, the finances. Where did it fall wrong?
And with me it fell wrong with operation, with finances all day. I was great at marketing and sales, but operationally I became egotistical, lost my best people, that started to crack. And then money, I put too much money into something, didn't get it back crashed and burned.
So you have to analyze things, and that's what I did, I analyzed the business. And what I realized was when I said, "I'm going to become great at speaking." The minute I said, "I want to help people succeed where I failed in life." That's when things got better.
Lauren: Yeah, because you know what, what you're talking about is a demonstration of something I talk about. I talk about five truths of purpose. And one of those truths is that I believe purpose can only exist when it's about other people.
Purpose is never about the ego. It's never about what can I do? What do I do? What do I bring? What makes me great? That's not purpose, purpose is always from a place of service for other people.
Marques: Sure.
Lauren: And, so, you were saying, from your own journey, something that where you failed, how can I help other people skip through that, right? How do I get them to the place that helps them avoid the pain of it?
Marques: Mh-hmm.
Lauren: But I almost wonder, though, the pain helped hone you. So you could try to help people avoid those things. But if it's part of their path of overcoming self, how much do you think your words could even help them? Would it sway, at all, if that's part of someone else's path?
Marques: Well, here's the thing, I know what you're saying. But here's where I'll challenge you, is that "Yes, you can have degrees of being on the hard path." What you're hoping is that a coach will help to minimize those degrees of the role being hard or what you have to go through.
I don't want anybody to ever go through what I went through. Not a client, not a person, I wouldn't wish Chapter 7 Bankruptcy on my worst enemy. It was hell on earth. I had 177 creditors on my docket. I had over $5.5 million of debt. I owed $3,300, to my bankruptcy attorney to pay it to protect myself. It took me almost a year to pay that because I was so poor.
I was literally doing football training, I was making around 500 bucks. I would take $200 and go pay my bankruptcy attorney. Everything else is go towards bills, whatever the case may be. Make $1,000 running a camp for a weekend, great. Take 500 go pay that attorney 500 go to bills, I didn't have money. I didn't have what I have today.
So I had to piecemeal the bankruptcy payment to my attorney to get all those. So, literally, for a year and almost a half, I was exposed to any creditor that wanted to come after me from my business failure.
Lauren: Mh-hmm.
Marques: Because I couldn't protect myself. So my point is that a great coach should be able to minimize your risk. You're going to always take half that risk as an entrepreneur, an executive because you didn't get there by playing it safe. But what you're hoping is that you're able to minimize and reduce those possible failures.
Because if I would have had a coach with my business, I would have said, "Hey, Marques," I would have this hope that a coach said, "Marques, why are you doing this extra work without a signed contract? What are you thinking? You've built this massive company and you're going to put yourself on the line without a signed contract for this change order work? Why?"
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: So that would have stopped me to say, "Oh, hold up, Turner, I'm not doing this work without a signed change order." But because I had no coach, my business partner who was 41 years my elder, wasn't really as business savvy as I knew he needed to be.
By the time we got into business it was too late to know he wasn't the right for me. But we were too far into the process, so he didn't help me to get that. I didn't really have the good guidance from someone to tell me, "Marques, this doesn't make sense." So I gambled and I lost.
Lauren: Yeah, and, so, you wish or not even you wish, I mean, you are going to be that person for other people. So there is true, like, it's not just "Hey, wink, nudge, maybe you should think twice about doing that." You've actually lived this path and so you're helping people truly avoid those mistakes.
Marques: And I feel this, I think you can be a great coach, no matter if you've gone through that or not. But I feel you can be a better coach, that's just my opinion, if you've gone through it because you know what to look out for.
I know what it looks like for business to start crumbling, if you lose your best people, if you don't have a good marketing strategy. If you're not good at continuing to convert your sales. If you're overextending in your business financially, I know what it's like. So, hopefully, you will take my advice because, again, like I tell my clients, "You pay me, so you don't end up like me."
Lauren: Yeah, it's a good line, I agree with you. It's interesting, it's not lost on me that you went from player to coach, certainly in a totally different realm. But let's go back to player Marques, let's talk about what athletes have to go to just to even get to that level of mastery in any sport. Certainly, for you, you spent several years in the NFL. What do you think is the perception of someone who ends up as a professional athlete like you?
Marques: I think the perception is, is that we only have athletic ability and athletic prowess. That's not reality, because just like anything you have to be educated to be able to play a game. Between all the plays and the things, you have to go through, and the formations, and a playbook and adjusting. You just don't go out there, this just not Sandlot.
You don't go out there and say, "Hey, guys, run-flat pattern, run across, you guys dive there." You don't just draw something up in the dirt when you're sitting there playing the NFL. You have a whole playbook, you have a whole scheme. You have a strategic plan to actually win the game and you have a tactical plan of the plays you're going to call during the game.
So it's not about going out there playing Sandlot sports, it's about going out there and executing what the coaches and the coordinators call. There's a lot of thought in that, there's a lot of mental process in that.
And it's kind of interesting, think about it like this, you work in corporate America. Let's say you work in a job. You're working in your cubicle, you're doing your thing, nobody has their eyes on you all the time. You can do your job, you can fly under the radar. You can relax at your office, you can look at Meta, you can get on Instagram, you're good. In the NFL, if you are in the field all eyes are on you. You can't go hide in a cubicle.
Lauren: Fly under the radar.
Marques: You can't fly under the radar. I mean, you're out there on that battlefield, and if you screw up, they're going to see it.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: And, so people understand, it's a very high-intense pressure job. And a lot of times you have to have a process in order to reach that next level of success. And people don't understand that that's what athletes go through.
It's high stress, it's highly chaotic, and you have to perform under these type of situations no matter what. How you're feeling. What's going on in your household, what's going on with your finances, what's going on with your spouse, it doesn't matter.
Because you know what the owners don't care. The other team doesn't sure care. The fans don't care, they want to win. So it is a very high-intense, high-pressure situation job.
Lauren: Yeah, do you feel like you had something to prove during those years?
Marques: Oh, yeah, I mean, because being the younger brother of one of the best offensive lineman in NFL's history, you always want to prove that you belong in NFL.
You always want to prove that you're not just there because of your last name. You always want to prove that you can do the job, at the highest level. Getting into the NFL is one thing, I mean, that's hard, staying in NFL is even harder.
Because every year new draft picks, new guys want your job, and that's what it is. It's a very small percentage of people that are, actually, on the active roster, dress, play. The people that want to get in, want to be on the football field, and you're always competing every single day.
Lauren: How did you, as a player, manage that competitive stress? But then also create relationships and that sort of team mentality at the same time, and how do you bring that forward now?
Marques: So I had my brother to lean on, thank goodness, where I could talk with him about how to do that. How to compete at the high level, then how to turn it off and be a teammate, and have that camaraderie, and have that bond with people that are on your team. As you're, especially, in training camp, as you're trying to earn a spot and get on the field, and you're trying to win a job.
And then I learned from my brother about how to turn all that off. And then today it's great, because in our current business, I have one of my business partners, of course, my wife is my main business partner.
Then one of my business partners her name is Dawn, so then Dawn helps out with content creation, and building process, and blog writing, and PowerPoints, all that. And then we have George who works with us with the website and SEO.
Then we've got Donovan, who's our videographer, does all of our videos and stuff like that. Then we've got Albert who's like our trademark and patent person. Then we've got Ben, who is our publicist, and PR and media. Then we've got Jami who's our bookkeeper. Tom is our accountant and then Bob is our lawyer, and we work as a team.
Lauren: You just gave the whole roster and I love it.
Marques: Because that's everybody, that's the team. And you talk about relationships, I have to work hard because when we do branding meetings twice a month, I'm on those calls. When we now meet with George once a month for the website, then I have to do that.
And, so, I've learned that as our brand is going to have me as the nucleus, I got to make sure I'm working overtime. And that's what I learned in football because that's the whole process that you have to have, you have to have that.
Lauren: Yeah, that's a seven-day-a-week thing. I think people don't realize how many hours a day and days a week that professional athletes have. It might be 5:00 a.m. might be 6:00 a.m., all the way through to 7:00 p.m. that night, and it's seven days a week.
I do think we have glamorized it so much, as a society, almost like, "Here are these people with this great physical strength." And to your point, I mean, I think we count out all the hard work that it takes to get there.
We also count out that a person could have any other interests or any other abilities outside of that. And I know that's been part of your experience that people have really tried to keep you in this shell where they've said, "There's no way you can speak outside of this. And no one wants to hear about anything but football." I'm sure people have said that to you too.
Marques: So two-fold, I remember when I was coaching, I was coaching a small university in Lillington, North Carolina called Campbell University, got a huge law program. [Inaudible 00:23:43] when a program. I coached there, as an analyst, as an intern to kind of help out.
The next year they offered me a job, just working in the same capacity but with small pay. And I was like, "No, I'm good." I just didn't want to get into that realm. Everybody said, "Well, Marques what are you doing? Like, "You can go coach at Campbell and be a huge fish in a little bitty little team in North Carolina. You can get paid 25,000 a year, you can get free health care free Waffle House for life."
I was like, "Well, I don't want to be 500 pounds." I was 375 in the NFL and I'm not going back there. I don't want to be a big fish in a little bit, little team of North Carolina, I wanted more than that. And, so, then I'll never forget I was speaking, had a couple of things going on but it was still early. And a guy that I knew since I was 17, he played with my brother, he worked for an NFL team, reached out to him about speaking for his team to his rookies. I'll never forget his response.
He said, "Marques, you know I'm only taking this call because you are Jonathan's little brother, and you have no value to me. You'll never speak ever. I don't want washed-up former players, that don't have a type of name, I only hire the best. And if I were you I would seriously consider giving up speaking and never try to do it again."
Lauren: Oh.
Marques: And this is a guy that I knew since I was 17. And at the time I reached out to him I was, probably, I'd say 34, so over 17 years, right?
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: And I remember telling this to my wife and she was like, "Wow!"
Lauren: How does someone even, I mean, I'm thinking, how does someone even write those words? Like, I would never think that, certainly, never even say that to someone.
Marques: Especially, if you've known them for 17 years.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: And I remember my wife, though, reading that email and she got super mad, and I was just devastated. Because I was like, "Wow, if this guy who I've known can think about me in this capacity, what do others think? Maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I need to call and pack it in."
So I took about 24 hours to think about it. And I called one of my mentor, he said, "Marques, look, you're going to face this on your journey, understand that. Now, if you decide to do what he says and pack it in, he's won. If you decide to do what you know you can do and keep going forward, you have the chance to win. The choice is yours."
And, so, I took it, I went, and now today, we've worked for 37 Fortune 500 companies as a speaker. Of the 37, 13 are Fortune 100. We just got hired by Nestle to speak to their team next month.
And, so, we've worked for NFL teams, we've worked for Player Engagement. We've worked for universities, we've done commencement speeches, we have a podcast, three-time bestselling author. All these things have happened since then and that guy is no longer working for an NFL team.
Lauren: Oh, wow.
Marques: You know what, he now works for NFL alumni, which is a group for a team, it's not even for a team. He works like an NFL Alumni Chapter, which is a non-paid, much lower-level type of job.
Lauren: Yeah, I feel like there's something, too, when a person tries to only put others down. I know personally, one of the things that I try, endeavor to do is I try to look at everyone as a gift. And I say, "Oh, you're my gift today, and how can I be your gift today?"
I know, personally, I never want to be that person that just keeps someone from the success that is on their path. Like, "Cool, I'm in your path, maybe, I'm part of your path to success. So how can I help you get there?" I want to dig into something with you that you brought up, that I feel it's important for people who listen or watch this podcast.
Marques: Mh-hmm.
Lauren: You are on the other side of success. But there were years where you were not on the other side of success.
Marques: You got that right.
Lauren: And, so, there are people who will listen to this, watch this, looking for encouragement, looking for support, looking for almost like this feeling of community. And my goal is always to help people say, "Oh, that person in that chair, Marques was there. I am there."
How did Marques in 2013, as a janitor, turn it around and say, "I trust what's inside. I trust what I feel I need to do." How did you turn that around to then now have this trajectory, all these years later, of success?
Marques: Well, the main thing people have to do is figure out what three things they do best. Society programs us to figure out what we don't do well. Well, we don't do this well. You don't do that well, you don't do that well. Every time I coach a client on the first call, every time, "Tell me your story, what three things are your biggest strengths?"
Lauren: oh, do people struggle with that? I feel like people struggle to figure out what they do well?
Marques: No, because-
Lauren: Really?
Marques: ...no because I let them know ahead of time. When we have our call because after every time the client signs up they get a welcome aboard email. On the first call, we're going to cover this, this, and this, because I don't want them to be surprised.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: Because the thing is I want our clients to actually be excited about working with us, and ultimately excited about themselves. So what do you do well? Now, I also ask you, "What do you want to improve upon." But I start in the mindset of what you do well.
Because if people start off in the mindset of what they do well, and then figure out, "Okay, what do I want improve upon?" I feel they're in a much better position mentally to actually embark on the journey.
So, people that are listening, what three things do you do best? So, for me, I was a great communicator, I wanted to help people, and I was a good storyteller. And, so, that's how I ended up starting the speaking business.
Lauren: I think you've left off one, you have an intensity. You just do. Like you have this chip on your shoulder that gives you this crazy intensity. Where "Yeah, I mean, I could tell you know, someone else could tell you know." But I get the sense from you, and tell me if I'm wrong, I get the sense from you that you're just going to go through that line. You know what I mean? You're just going to go.
Marques: Well, I mean, you know what, you don't make it to the National Football League, and not be able to have that attitude.
Lauren: Right.
Marques: I was talking to a guy yesterday, who's looking to sponsor our show, potentially. And this guy, when we had a conversation after our show and he was talking to me about this. And I called him up a couple of days later, we had a nice conversation.
He told me to call him on Tuesday, called him didn't respond. Then we had a chat text, he said, "Well, Marques, I want to wait for this." I said, "Okay, not a problem. But this might be a good idea that we can embark upon. You've got two businesses, we can maybe go this route."
So the next day, he texts me he's like, "Well, Marcus, I like your tenacity but I didn't realize I was going to be try to be upsold to on your podcast. So I'll politely discredit myself. I said, "You know what, Sir, we have 34 sponsors of our show since August.
No one has ever been upsold to, I don't sell to anybody. And you told me who you were looking for and I told you that I can provide that. You said you want to sponsor this amount. You said, 'Let's have a call." You said, 'Let's Talk Tuesday'. So where did this whole thing come from that I'm trying to upsell you?"
So, basically, I told him that you know what... he's like, "Well, you could still come out to Costa Rica and meet my mentor, and meet Gary Vee." I was like, "No, I'm good. I'm so good. You can just go ahead, Sir, I don't want your sponsorship. I don't want to go meet your people.
Because I don't want you to think I'm trying to take advantage of you." And my point is that when people try to tell me something, I'm like, "Hey, look, I'm not the guy to try to get you want to do this with me."
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: But either you do it or you don't. But that's to add to what I have, now, because of that guy. I'm just going to keep going more, and more. More with my podcast, with better guests, with more sponsors. Because I love it when somebody's like, "Well, you think you're trying to do something" No, I'm like, "Look-"
Lauren: I'm doing me.
Marques: "...you're not the sponsor that I need. You can take your money and you can stay right over there, I don't want to come to you and beg." And he called me he's like "Oh, you know, I wanted to pause this." I said, "Okay, pause, accept it, cool." "So do you still want to come back?" "No, we are good."
Lauren: Do people get one chance with you? Or do they get more?
Marques: No, it depends on how you come across. If you come across as he did, it's one and done. If you come across have a little bit of disconnect, but you're kind about it, and you're polite about it, then we can go from there.
Lauren: Yeah, what happens when you have clients that are, actually... maybe I should ask this differently. Have you had a client that you go, "Oh, your baby Marques you need me." Like someone that you can see them, and they're heading down the path that you're headed down? Have you found that person yet?
Marques: Oh, yeah, of course, I've have clients like that. And usually, people's biggest problem is they're impatient.
Lauren: Oh, yeah. I have that ingrained, like inability to be patient.
Marques: Well, and here's the problem, if you're impatient people on the other side can feel it. Like I told this guy out there, I said, "Man, look, if it doesn't work for you take as much time as you need." He could have come and said, "I missed that."
I said, "Well, obviously, you did miss that." Because I don't need you to feel I need you today. And, so, look, "Take as much time as you need." And I'm like, look, the problem with most people, though, is that they want the sale today.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: It's not going to happen. People have their own schedules, they have their own process. You try to push people too far they're going to say, "I don't want that." So that's what I've learned, is that a lot of my clients who are like me in that regard. It's they struggle with patience or they expect people to respond to them in a time frame that they want them to respond.
Lauren: Right.
Marques: It doesn't happen that way.
Lauren: How do you encourage people who, again, might be in that former Marques spot, the Marques, of however, almost 10 years ago. How would you encourage someone to as it dealt with relationships?
Not necessarily romantic relationships, but partnerships, friendships, you know what I'm saying? Like how do we know who the right person to partner with? Who's the right person to, God, marry? Who's the right person to befriend and just you know, do life with?
Marques: I go off this old I guess, it's a quote, "Yu want to be a farmer, not a hunter. You want to plant seeds, let them grow?" Like my wife and I met on match.com, that was 2012. We dated, went through all the ups and downs but it was planting, married in 2015. We're married now seven years in May.
The people on my team, now, I met Dawn on LinkedIn, in 2017. Planted seeds there and then she ended up working with me, moved to Carolina 2018, here we are. Dawn helped me find George and this and that, and it went on down the line.
So be a farmer, not a hunter. You're not out there trying to shoot game on a Safari. You should be out there trying to plant seeds with people to actually develop relationships. Because here's the thing there's belief and there's trust. Belief is the hope that you or someone else can accomplish a goal or an aspiration. Trust is full confidence that you or someone else can accomplish a goal or aspiration.
Every first encounter in life is belief. Now, how do you turn belief into trust? Discipline, consistency, focus, the fortitude in the follow-up, and having a great strategy. That's how you turn belief into trust.
So when someone hires you, it's either a high level of belief or a low barrier entry of trust. As you work with someone time and time again, it goes from low barrier belief of trust, to high level.
So the thing is you can't push the belief barometer up by trying to force, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way in relationships, it doesn't work that way in business partnerships, it doesn't work that way in client acquisition. It doesn't work that way in anything in life.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: But the problem, and I tell people this is where you need to plant seeds, here, here, here, plant many seeds. Don't try to plant one and sit there over top of that tree-like, "Grow, grow!" It's not going to work. You got to plant multiple seeds.
Lauren: Well, I feel like this is knowledge and wisdom from experience. Because I know growing up, you did get things by pushing. I mean, athleticism isn't something that's like, "Here, honey, plant a seed, and maybe everything will turn out, okay." I think as an athlete, or am I wrong? I'm wrong?
Marques: Think about this.
Lauren: All right, okay, let's hear it.
Marques: I had to plant seeds of my own development. As I got better at football, people got easier to move.
Lauren: Okay.
Marques: So it's planting inside of me. I couldn't rush Marques in high school to become as good as Jonathan, because my brother had great coaching in 7th and 8th grade. He was 6"9 in the eighth grade.
Lauren: Oh, God.
Marques: So I didn't have that. So there is a level of seed planting to develop as an athlete. Now, when you're on the field, it's what you talk about.
Lauren: Smash.
Marques: Right, it's Hulk Smash, that's what football is. But to get to the point where you are good at it, you have to plant and let it develop. And that's how people get burnout. Like I talk about, "Oh, my son is the best seven-year-old Pop Warner player, he's going to be an NFL athlete."
I'm like, "Damn, the kid is not even out of elementary school. Why are you talking about him being an NFL athlete?" Let him live a little bit. Let him play other sports, let him do a music, that is an instrument, let him do something." I mean, don't push and that's what happens.
So we interviewed his name is Ken Murray. Ken Murray is the dad, his son, Keegan Murray, is one of the top draft picks in NBA this year, he is in Iowa. We interviewed him on our podcast and he said, "Marques and Lev" Is my co-host name. "We told our kids, twin boys, don't rush."
Lauren: Be a kid.
Marques: Be a kid. He said when they were young, they played basketball, they played baseball. He said they lettered in golf. They were into plays, they got into nonprofit work, and they never burn out.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: He said they never burn out. He said that was something that he knew could happen, if they tried to push, "Basketball, camp, go to an all-American." I mean, he didn't do any of that. And because of that, now, Keegan is finishing up, the NCAA tournament is coming up. And he'll, probably be, for sure, he'll be a top-five and he said maybe even number one draft pick coming out of college this year.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: Because his dad, he planted seeds with them and let them go do golf. Let them go do football and then there'll be baseball, basketball, and life, and other things and not just sports. It wasn't just all basketball. So people need to take that mentality in life also, like just plant multiple seeds, and don't try to force things. Because when you try to force, that's when bad things happen.
Lauren: Yeah, I would agree. And then, too, if other people are involved, no one ever likes being told what to do. We all bristle. Some of us have shorter bristles, some of us have more tolerance for it.
I'm one of those that has very low tolerance for being told what to do. I'm like, "Wait, what did you say?" But I think it's also part of being the youngest of three kids, I just got told what to do all the time and I'm like, "Mm-mm, you're not my mom."
I'm interested in this because I have a few close friends who are former professional athletes. And the thing that surprised me, almost, like there's been this ubiquitous sort of understanding with each of them, that they believe that people don't realize how much unhappiness exists in professional sports.
Marques: Oh, yeah.
Lauren: Because outside looking in, here I am armchair quarterbacking right now and saying, "Oh, look, they've got everything there. They're on the field, they're playing great. They've got the big contract and, probably, the house, and all of the doodads that go along with great success. They must be so happy, they've got it all figured out."
Marques: Mh-hmm.
Lauren: What level of unhappiness do you think exists not just in professional sports, but even through entrepreneurship. Of that back and forth pull of someone saying, "No, I need to do this because it will make me happy, but at the same time I'm unhappy." Have you seen that?
Marques: One of my clients who I think the world of she's awesome, her husband's great. She wants to get into mental health coaching. And she has a marketing business which does very well, but she hates it. She hates it.
She says she hates going to bed and knowing she has to wake up the next day and deal with all the crap of the marketing business. The clients, the back and forth, the wishy-washy and that's paying her bills, right?
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: That happens to so many people, athletes, the same thing. You can make a ton of money, things can be great, but then you can have problems at home. You could have issues with finances. I literally just saw something on Instagram, Steve Harvey was talking about where he, at one point, owed the IRS $22 million.
Because he was basically taking care of all his stuff. He was doing his tax documents, he gave a check to his accountant, but the accountant would take the money out of the account that matched the IRS payment, but never sent the check to the IRS.
Lauren: Oh.
Marques: So for seven years it built up. So he thought he was making it, he gave him the document thought he was making his payments, all that stuff. But the accountant was pulling out the money that matched the amount that he was supposed to send to IRS.
Lauren: Wow.
Marques: So imagine the kind of stress that Steve Harvey was under to take care of that. I mean, $22 million that you owe the IRS and you're doing it the right way. You hire somebody, did your tax forms, made your payment, and it wasn't done on your behalf correctly.
Lauren: That's stressful.
Marques: So and that's what I'm saying and that's what people don’t understand business is stressful. Sports is stressful, because, again, you're in a high-pressure, high-chaotic environment, all day. I mean I was watching something this morning at the hotel as I was getting ready to come over here, people who are in the trucking business, they're just dying right now.
Lauren: Mh-hmm.
Marques: Diesel is up over $5 a gallon across the country. And a woman who was living in apartment and she had to get out of her apartment. She moved in with I guess, her parents and they had to move out, she's now living in her truck. And she says she's very nervous because she has to conserve gas, because it's more expensive.
Truckers are saying, "Well between the gas, the expenses, inflation, we're not making any money. We are just paying our bills." So imagine how people who are just, basically, making money just to pay bills. They don't have anything to put away, I mean, it's not good.
Lauren: So how do we get from, I mean, I think if anyone is listening to this, and they say, "Okay, well, I'm in that spot. I'm doing something that I thought was going to make me happy, but now I'm not happy." What do we need to do? How do we begin to climb out of that hole to find happiness, or excitement, or fulfillment? What would you suggest?
Marques: So, I tell people, and I told this to my client yesterday. Take two pieces of paper, write down a, I call them two lists. One is your happiness list and one is your reality list. One was what you thought you want to do, the other is things you got to do.
Then what are the things you want to do? What are the things you need to do? Then from there pick a third sheet and build your future list. Like I want to do this, I got to do this for now. I want to do this, I got to do this for now, that's what I did.
So I was, basically, football, coaching, running camps, that was my reality list. The other side list was speaking, coaching, consulting, podcast, author, that was my wish list that I compiled. I'm going to do football training first-
Lauren: Because you know it and people trust you with that,
Marques: And I’ll make money off of it, and I'll live. I'll do speaking, then I said camps, then I said coaching. So I built a third list and I was just, basically, coming down the list, I checked off.
So I got my first paid speaking job April 2016, checked off speaker. But I was still doing my football training, I was still doing my 7 on 7 Camps. Then 2018 comes I get my first coaching client. I checked off my combination list, I checked that off.
So then, as I looked at my list in 2020 March, when I'm like, "Oh my God," and the pandemic hits. “Everything in my list I'm doing." Speaking, coaching, consulting, author, podcast, well, podcast wasn't yet, but all these things I'm doing. So over here, now, so my wish list has become my reality.
Lauren: Yes, but that took you four years?
Marques: Yeah, around six.
Lauren: Wow.
Marques: So now, boom, here I am. So my old reality list, coaching football, 7 on 7 Camps, birthday clown at birthday parties for Kids playing football.
Lauren: Oh, wow.
Marques: I would go out there with my birthday clown outfit and play football with the kids. That was part of my reality list at the time. That's right, a big 6"6 guy out there with that clown outfit on, playing football with the kids.
Lauren: How did you find an outfit that big? I'm just curious.
Marques: Well, my wife had a thing for Amazon. So imagine you could find Santa outfits, so you can find clown outfits, you can find all kinds of stuff. So I had little Bozo the Clown hair and went out there and did that.
Lauren: Oh, my gosh.
Marques: And I got paid 125 an hour to play birthday clown with the kids. So all of my reality list that's what I did then. 2020 March, I said, "Wow, my whole wish list and my old reality list, I've been doing my old reality list. My new reality list was my wish list. So I stopped coaching in March 2020, and I haven't coached since
Lauren: I think of you, and it's the title obviously of the podcast, too, I think of you as the Overcomer. I think of your personal story, as just a list of things over, and over, and over again that you've overcome.
I do think because sitting across from you and hearing your stories, and just even hearing your personal journey. I feel like there have been things that you've had to overcome. I also think there have been things that have forced this chip on your shoulder, that make you feel like you have to prove yourself day in and day out. Do you, first of all, do you feel like you still have to prove yourself right now?
Marques: Always.
Lauren: Okay, and do you think there will ever be a point where you don't have that same feeling like, "Today I've got to fight. Tomorrow, I'm going to fight, and then the next week I'm going to fight." Does a world exist where Marques Ogden doesn't fight every day?
Marques: No, and I'll tell you why. Marques Ogden thought he didn't have to fight with Kayden and what happened there? He lost it all. He stopped fighting. He stopped the urge to be the best. He got lazy. He got complacent. He got arrogant. He got self-centered and worst of all, he got really egocentric and money-hungry and he stopped. And then three months later he's out of business.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: So to answer your question, no. I'll never stop working, I mean I go to the gym seven days a week. I mean, I was at the gym this morning, it was a little rinky-dink-
Lauren: Hotel room?
Marques: Yeah, they had one cross country machine, one small bike, one treadmill. The heaviest weight they had in there was 25-pound dumbbells. I'm like, "Really?"
Lauren: You're like, "These didn't come with 25-pound dumbbells."
Marques: I'm like, "What am I going to do with those 25-pound dumbbells?" So I just increased my number of reps and I worked out this morning. I did that, did my core, my sit-ups because you could easily find the excuse to say, "I'm not going to bother today, they don't have anything here for me." Or you can be innovative. I read an article about, is called your Chi. Have you ever heard of like Chi?
Lauren: No.
Marques: It's a far east term like an Asian-Japanese-Chinese term of it's your life-force energy. So when your Chi is not blocked it creates innovation, it creates happiness, you can harness it for good. When it's blocked, negativity, stress, self-doubt, takes over your body.
So I programmed myself to let my Chi flow, now, you do that by removing mental barriers. You do that by surrounding yourself with positive thinkers, and you do that by knowing you're good enough. So in the gym this morning, I said, "You know what, my Chi is always positive."
I can say "You know what, they don't have crap in here." I can say, "I'm going to sleep for another hour." Or Marques the way he is, you know what, I'm going to use that machine and do an hour of cardio. I'm going to use those 25-pound dumbbells and do my shoulder press and my front extension, and my shoulder shrugs. I'll do my sit-ups, I'll do my 800 core abs, I'm out.
Lauren: Yeah, that's true.
Marques: That's what I did. So my point is that Marques always feels he has to do more than anybody else. And I'll be real with you because this podcast will be real. There's very few African American speakers that are speaking on corporate level, there's very few.
Lauren: Why is that?
Marques: You know what-
Lauren: Like, real answer, don't give me some polished answer. Why do you think that is?
Marques: No, I mean, the real answer is that we have to, just in general in society, we have to get better at allowing people to actually prove what they can bring to the table. And, I think, sometimes we as African Americans get frustrated, kind of, the hell last year was with not having opportunity.
And then when we get an opportunity sometimes kind of like I screwed it up, we don't deliver. And then we get criticism, which I was pissed off about it the first time I heard it. But then I looked back and said, "Wow, that really helped me." That's what's on our side. I think corporate America needs to do a better job of looking and trying to give opportunities and trying to give people who don't look like them, at times, that chance.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: Because now, again, it's both sides like they need to do better about giving out chances, and we need to do better. If we do a good job, how do you keep doing and again, like you just said, you don't want to just say, "Oh, I did a great job."
Where is the rest of the jobs coming from? Like, I don't sit around, say, "Well, I've worked with 37 Fortune 500 companies, 13 Fortune 100." And say, "Oh, gee, life is great. They're going to keep calling me like no one else."
Lauren: You've got to keep being the farmer and plant seeds.
Marques: There you go, coming here doing this podcast. Who knows who's going to watch this? You never know. I could have said, "Lauren, I really like you, you're awesome, but, nah, I'm good."
Lauren: I don't feel like traveling.
Marques: I'm just going to stay at home with my family and just take it easy. Because, actually, if I'm not here, it would have been the first full day off, for me, in I don't know how long. But I love it because that's just not who I am. But I planned it this way because I knew I was coming.
But the point is, though, it's like, that's the type of demeanor you have to have. So I feel it's a little bit of both, I feel we need to do better of continuing to press forward and if you are, and you're doing a great job, keep doing it, you're doing great.
But on the other side, corporate America, you have to start letting people in that don't look like you at times. Give them a chance and see what they can do. And judge people off of three things, I learned from a very accomplished, she, actually, was a director of events for AXA Equitable, a great speaker. There's these three things great stage presence, great audience engagement, they educate their audience. I don't care if you're White, Black, Asian, I don't care, it doesn't matter to me.
Lauren: You could be purple.
Marques: It doesn't matter you could be a Barney. If you do those three things as a speaker, and you can prove it time and time again, you'll be successful.
Lauren: Right.
Marques: But again, the hardest part, I think, for us because I remember feeling like this when I was starting out, we just don't get the chance.
Lauren: Yeah, well, then you start putting yourself in victimhood, too, like, "It's everybody else's fault that I've not gotten this."
Marques: That's what I was feeling like. Like, damn, is it because I've got double tattoo sleeves? Is it because I'm black? What is it? You know what I mean? Then I said "You know what Marques, if you keep thinking like this, you're never going to get anywhere. So what can you do?"
And then I just started going to my network and saying, "Hey, I'm speaking and I want to do this." And people that looked at me, not from my color, because I'm a good person and that's how I got my first non-paid corporate job.
And then I took that, I got a reference letter did more, and I've been told no, and that happens. But again, to work for 37 Fortune 500 brands in six years, that's not easy. I don't care what color you are. So you got to have the mentality, though, to keep going.
Lauren: What do you think your purpose is?
Marques: My wife says my purpose is to talk. But that's what she says.
Lauren: No, it's got to be something deeper than that, something very deep.
Marques: No, that's what my wife says. My purpose is to really just leave this earth a better place than when I got here. We're all going to pass away, that's just life.
But what are you doing while you're here? What's your legacy? What's your meaning? And my purpose is to give people knowledge and information that I've accumulated, either what I've read, what I've lived through, and pass it on. What you do with the information that's on you.
Lauren: Mh-hmm.
Marques: I challenge every audience I speak to, every audience, "Are you willing to take this information to elevate? Are you willing to take this information to ascend? Are you ready to become a better leader by taking this information tomorrow?
Are you ready to become someone with a stronger mindset?" It's always a challenge in every speech I do, that I give you the action steps to, actually, make that challenge become a solution. Through what I've given you as action steps to make that your reality, but I can't make you do it. Great leaders don't tell people where to go or show them, they take them. But I can't take you and pull your arm out of the socket to come follow me. I can't do that.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: I'm not going to jail for you. I can take your hand and say, "Hey, here you go." I'm not going to force you and just drag across the room, I can't do that because it's not me. That's just not who I am.
Lauren: Well, and it's not successful long-term either, because then someone has to make the choice themselves to do that, to change.
Marques: Correct. For example, a great speaker, Eric Thomas, really, good speaker has a lot more conferences, sports teams. Eric's a huge yeller, but he's also, I think, like 5"8, he can get away with that. I'm almost 6"6 I can't just yell at the top of my lungs in a room. People are going to be like, "What the hell is wrong with this guy."
Lauren: Yes, what is he doing?
Marques: I can't do that. So my point is that you have to figure out what works for you. And here is what I'll tell your audience, don't be afraid to go against the grain.
Don't be afraid to be a trailblazer or a trendsetter. Don't be a follower. Don't do what's called chasing momentum, or what's taught in the stock market, chasing the bull, don't do that. Be a trendsetter, be a trailblazer be different.
Lauren: Yeah.
Marques: It's okay to be different. Like, most speakers aren't 6"6, 285, 290 pounds, double tattoo sleeve, former NFL athlete, there's not but I'm okay with that.
Lauren: Well, that's what makes you interesting, though. That's why people want to hear what you have to say.
Marques: Why?
Lauren: Because of the pitfalls because you became a janitor. You had it all, lost it all, have it all again, that's why people want to hear your story.
Marques: Right, and I tell people that's what you have to do. You have to be willing to step out of your comfort. Jonah Hill, the actor has a great quote, "The comfort zone is where dreams go to die." Right?
Lauren: Yes.
Marques: Or another great saying people say is, "When you have too many meetings that's where ideas die." One of the things people have to do to have the courage to lead through change, make a decision and don't drag your feet. Don't drag your feet.
So right now, if you're trying to figure out what to do next, well, you figure out what your three things are. Reverse-engineer backwards, you make a decision, go with it. Don't drag your feet if you fail, okay. Again, like I said earlier, do you learn from the failure or do you keep making the same mistake?
Lauren: Mh-hmm.
Marques: That's the difference. I learned from my failure. And I'll tell you about it, I have this saying, "When you lose everything, you learn to appreciate everything."
Lauren: Yeah, Marques, thank you.
Marques: I enjoyed it. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Lauren: So what do you think? Tell me in the comments below, like it, share it with someone who needs to hear it. I'm adding new videos all the time to help you reconnect yourself and then prepare for purpose.
And since you're here, I've gone ahead and linked to my playlist the episode AMPlified, it gives shorter clips from each episode. Still, though very much power-packed with encouragement, it's all right here. So thanks for watching, and I'll see you next time.
