08/04/2022 AMPstigator Season Two Episode: One Amy Porterfield
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Lauren: Amy Porterfield is an internationally-known expert in digital marketing. She has been named one of the top 50 Most Influential People in social media, in the world.
In the last 10 years, she's helped hundreds of thousands of subscribers through her multimillion-dollar online course Empire. But at her core, Amy stands for freedom.
Freedom to be your own boss and make your own rules. And on top of that, she teaches and encourages with love. Because she's been there and she knows what it takes to create the life you really want. This is Amy Porterfield, The Liberator.
Lauren: How are we doing today?
Amy: I'm great. I've really been looking forward to this. This is such a great show. I love the topics and thanks for having me.
Lauren: Good. And I know it's something that's really important to you. Because from the beginning, you've been helping people, really, maybe in a different sort of set of language, but you've also been helping people find their purpose and what it is that they're supposed to really do. Under the guise of digital businesses, which I find just really interesting, because it does give people freedom.
But I think what I'm most interested in is your personal journey. Because I think there's so much power as we share what we've been through because it does, I think, shine a light for other people to understand there is life on the other side.
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: When you have the courage, you take the risk, and you do it, what comes out of that and I think you're living that. So anyone who follows you knows that you've had this just beautiful meteoric rise of a business, where you're helping so many thousands of people. But take me back to 2008, maybe even 2007, Amy.
Amy: Okay. So I was a corporate girl, at that time. I was working for Peak Performance Coach, Tony Robbins, and I was the director of content development. So I got to work on the content that Tony does on stage.
So anyone who knows Tony would know, Unleash the Power Within, Date With Destiny, these are the events I got to work on in content. And what happened was, I was there for about seven years. I loved my job. I loved working with Tony. I made great money. I had the security and the benefits and the bi-weekly paycheck, all good.
But there was one meeting that changed my life forever. And what happened was, Tony brought in a bunch of internet marketers into the San Diego office to talk about how they sold their courses online, their digital courses. How they made money. Because we wanted to get more into the online space at the Robbins Institute.
Lauren: This does feel like very early on in the journey.
Amy: Very early on.
Lauren: Like that's really inception time.
Amy: Yes, very much so. So he brought in a bunch of people to talk about their online businesses. And these were the top of the top internet marketers, we call them like the grandfather's the mac daddies.
I didn't know who they were at the time, now I do. One thing that stuck out there was not one woman at that table. And, this is very humbling, I was brought in to take notes. And, so, there's this big oak table. I was at a side table and I was typing away probably took the worst notes of my life.
Because the guys went around and talked about their businesses. They talked about the money they made, the people they served, the kind of creativity they had, what they were creating. And all I heard was freedom.
All I heard was, they're calling the shots, working when they want, how they want to work, where they want to work. And although I loved my corporate job, I thought, "I don't have freedom."
Lauren: Mh-hmm.
Amy: I'd just gotten married and was traveling, every single day, hardly saw my new husband. And I just thought, "This isn't really the life I want." But that was the moment I didn't even know that. But here's what was interesting, in that moment, I turned to my girlfriend, who I was working with and I said, "You're a writer, you have something that would translate into the online space. I have nothing. I'm a corporate girl for life. I have Nothing." And she said, "I don't think that's true."
Lauren: Yeah.
Amy: So over the next year I started to unpack that.
Lauren: Okay, so what did you unpack? What did you discover?
Amy: So what I discovered, so I stayed there for about a year after that pivotal meeting. And I decided I want to go out on my own, I want to create a business. Not really sure what I would do.
Lauren: Yeah, like what is that?
Amy: Yes, exactly. I was doing some social media and content writing, at the Robbins Group, so I had that under my belt, but I wasn't really sure.
So I just started to pay attention to what everyone was doing online and just kind of see what sparked my interest. Also, while I was still there, I asked to move to the marketing department.
Lauren: Oh.
Amy: And if I could work on these launches that they were starting to do based on what they were learning at that table, and they said, "Yes". So now I started to learn a new trade, got my hands into the marketing world, loved every minute of it. And so about six months after that is when I took the big leap and I went out on my own.
Lauren: Yeah, I'm just curious when you made that transition kind of into marketing. Was this one of those things where you're like in the background, you're like, "I hope no one figures this out. I have long-term plans that don't involve this place." Get me back in that headspace.
Amy: Great question. I've never been asked that question, absolutely, and I was a little bit nervous. I kind of felt a little guilty, "What if I leave and they give me this opportunity in marketing?" Or "What if someone finds out that I really want to go out on my own?" So I think I was a little bit nervous, had some anxious energy that entire time.
But I also knew that when I was learning, I was showing up. I was working the long hours, working weekends, hustling to show them like, "No, I really want to be here." And, so, I felt like I was showing up 100%, but I knew in the back of my mind I had one foot out at that point.
Lauren: And, also, here's another question about that very specific chapter in the transition journey out of that corporate career. Did you know how long you'd stay?
Amy: Mh-hmm. So I didn't at first. When I was in that meeting I just thought, "This seems crazy that I would ever leave and become..." Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd be an entrepreneur. I didn't grow up with that. I didn't ever aspire to that.
I love climbing the corporate ladder, I love the accolades, I love the bonuses, I love the security, so never did I think that. But about six months into that journey, I thought, "I've got to choose an exit date."
Lauren: Okay.
Amy: Because I was starting to feel like there's no end in sight. I knew I wanted something new, but when was it going to come?
So what I teach my students today is choose an exit date, you put that on a post-it note, and you put it somewhere you see it every day. I don't care if it's six months from now, a year from now, you got to know when you're going to make the jump.
Lauren: And how do you choose the date?
Amy: Okay, so that is such a great question because it's very scary. So what I usually tell my students is you've got to look at a few things. Number one, you do not need a huge nest egg. We all want it but I sure as heck didn't have a bunch of money when I left.
But you want a little money put aside just so you can get your footing when you go out on your own. So we look at having a little bit of savings, a little. Also, what are you going to do? Can you set it up now? Can you have a side hustle while you're in your corporate job, so that you can start to kind of play around with what you want to do. A lot of my students aren't even sure what they want to do, yet. They just have that.
Lauren: They're like testing the waters.
Amy: Yeah. And they have that knowing like, "I want something different for myself. I know my life can be different." A lot of my students, they're women, and they'll tell me, "All I wanted to do is be home when my son came home from school at three o'clock. I just want to be there for him."
Lauren: Mh-hmm, my heart.
Amy: You get it?
Lauren: I do. I do get it.
Amy: It's just make such a difference. Or, "I want to stop saying 'No, I can't come to your football game, I'll be out on the road.'" Or whatever it might be. So, to answer your question, you want to start thinking about what would life look like? What would you do? How would you make money? Start formulating a plan and ask yourself, "How long is that going to take?"
Lauren: Yeah.
Amy: Now I always say but be a little aggressive there. Don't say, "Okay, in three years." Because no one is inspired by that.
Lauren: Right.
Amy: But usually around three, six, nine, 12 months, I kind of encourage, let's choose the day.
Lauren: Well, that does give like urgency, right?
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: And we're hardwired to respond to urgency, we just are. If something needs to be taken care of right now we, "Okay, we're going to take care of it right now." We can spend our lives, and our days, putting out fires, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire. And then we realize, "Oh, we didn't do anything we were supposed to do."
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: So if you allow that long-term plan to become urgent, then you've actually made it something that needs to be taken care of.
Amy: That's so true.
Lauren: I love that. I love that. So you're like, "Okay, in six months, this is going to happen." And just for, give me a moment here, what did your husband say when you're like, "In six months?"
Amy: So, he actually, this is I am very fortunate, he was all for it. He said, "Let's do it, I'm ready." He knew, as much as I love my job, I was very stressed out, at the end, I was very overwhelmed. Funny enough you get into your own online business, you're very stressed out, you're very overwhelmed.
Lauren: But it's different.
Amy: It is different.
Lauren: It's different because it's for you.
Amy: You're so right.
Lauren: You do it for you. So you're like, "I see there's a reason for it."
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: When you're doing for someone else it's like, "Why?"
Amy: Building someone else's empire and working all those hours and on the road, that gets tough. And I don't believe everybody is meant to not be in a nine-to-five job, some people thrive and do amazing things.
Other people feel that calling and just not sure what to do with it. But when I went to my husband and said I wanted to do it, he was all for it. Thank God because I know many of my students, their spouses are not.
Lauren: Yeah, and they're not supportive or maybe they're even further along in their family. So they have things like they have the financial implications. They have the commitments that they have to take care of and it's like, "How do we do this?" Okay, so let's keep going chronologically here.
So you're like, here's my six-month date, I'm going to leave. I mean, what happens when you're like, "I'm going to put in my notice." And then people are like, "Oh!" And they're putting their fear on you, what is that like, whoa, how was that like?
Amy: Oh, this is such a great conversation because, one of the things, I was embarrassed to tell people what I wanted to do, what I really thought. So I turned to my husband, right before I took the big leap and left, and I said, "I'm embarrassed to put out blog posts." So just to tell you I went off to do social media. I taught people how to do social media that's the first thing I did when I left.
But I told my husband, "I'm gearing up for this and I want to write blog posts about it and post on," at the time Twitter was really, really hot above all else. And I said, "I'm embarrassed what my coworkers are going to think. I'm embarrassed what Tony is going to think. I'm just embarrassed that they're going to see, 'What is she, she doesn't know enough'".
Lauren: "Who is she?"
Amy: "Who is she to do that?" Two things came out of that my husband, so kindly said, "Babe, I love you, but Tony is not worried about what you're going to do and your co-workers aren't either. Everyone is worried about themselves.
Lauren: Yeah, it's true.
Amy: We're doing our own thing.
Lauren: It's a major self-awareness.
Amy: Major. I was like, "Ooh, that hurts, but you're totally right." And so I remember like, no one cares as much as I do. But the second thing was that I needed to feel that anxiousness, that energy, just to be like, "I'm going to do it anyway. I'm scared, but I'm going to do it anyway."
Scared, but do it anyway is, literally, a message I tell my students every day. Because I don't think you can change your life and not feel a little scared.
Lauren: Yeah. I do wonder, in your experience, if there's like sensation that goes along with that. Like we're doing a lot of thinking, feeling, but really thinking a lot, thinking a lot. But there's got to be some understanding of how you feel in that. Because you don't just leave a safe situation, unless you feel like there's something either calling you or pushing you to the next step. So how would you describe it, in your experience?
Amy: You know, every time someone asks me, like, "What was your, why? Why did you want to go out there and do your own thing?" And my why has morphed significantly over 13 years.
But back then it was very selfish. I didn't want to be told what to do, how to do it or when to do it, and I also didn't want a boss anymore.
I've had all, primarily, male bosses and I just was tired of being told what to do, and when to do, and doing it all for somebody else. So I knew, deeply, I wanted that freedom. So every time it got hard, scary, "Maybe I shouldn't do this, that paycheck is not coming in anymore." I just thought, "What do you want and why do you want it?"
Lauren: Did you ever envision your life? Was there, and I'm saying, like an actual mind-picture in your mind. Like, "This is what my life looks like." Did you have that or was it something else?
Amy: So, absolutely. I would see myself all the time, and we lived in a little condo in Carlsbad, California at the time. And I had bought this as a single girl and then got married, and now I had a husband and a stepson living in this tiny little condo.
And I would always picture myself in a big home with tons of palm trees, a pool in the back, and working on my laptop in my office and I just saw the serene setting. I just wanted that so bad. It was something that came up all the time.
Fast-forward many years later and I absolutely had the house, had the office, had the life that I wanted. And I kind of have to remind myself when I'm complaining or frustrated, like, "You're living the life that you'd only dreamed of."
Lauren: Right and you got to have gratitude in that, right?
Amy: So much.
Lauren: How important is that stopping along the way and just saying, "I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing what I set out to do."
Amy: It's so, so important. I had this bizarre feeling the other night. I was lying in bed, the night before a big photo shoot and it was like an all-day photo shoot for my website. I don't like photo shoots.
And so I was lying in bed and I was feeling very, very anxious and kind of frustrated. Like, "Why did I agree to this? It's going to be a long day." I was kind of being a brat. And I was talking to myself and I said, "Amy, you are in this gorgeous house in Nashville now. You have this super cozy bed. You're safe. You're secure. You have five people showing up tomorrow to take your picture and make sure you look good-"
Lauren: Yeah, to do your hair.
Amy: "You're just fine."
Lauren: Do your makeup.
Amy: Do your hair, makeup, make sure your day is wonderful. And I thought, "I am so very fortunate." But that that moment, I don't know if I really ever believed it was possible for me. I'm not the kind of girl that's like, "I know that's going to happen, so here we go."
Lauren: Yeah.
Amy: I'm just like, let's get into motion and let's just keep moving forward toward it.
Lauren: Help me understand if there was ever a point for you where you were like, "I need to let this go." Like you got to this point in your corporate career because you are like... you are just driving all the time.
But in order to take a leap like that, there has to be some kind of understanding of like, "I'm not totally in control here." So what happens when you do this? And did you ever have that moment where you're like, "I'm just going to do this?"
Amy: Absolutely. It was literally the moment I left my nine-to-five job. I didn't have a bunch of clients set up. I didn't know how it was going to work and I sure as heck didn't believe in myself like my husband believed in me at the time.
I always call that a leap of faith. And I always say let your WHY be stronger than your worries. And when your worries knock you down and you're afraid, and you want to hide under the table, you got to get that WHY and let it lift you up.
In that moment I was terrified to leave my job. I thought, for rest of my life I'd be a corporate girl and I was happy that way.
Lauren: Well, it's safe, it's very safe. And then like you're saying, you get your paycheck every two weeks. And we forget, and I think people who haven't started a business don't remember or they don't realize it where is the money coming from and if I don't generate that, we have a problem.
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: So there has to be a WHY.
Amy: Has to be.
Lauren: There has to be a thing that's motivating and pulling us forward. How do you help, you think, your students, the people that come to you, how do you help them really cultivate the WHY and help them understand why the WHY is just such a driving force?
Amy: Yes. So what I tell them is that WHY does not need to change the world, at least in the beginning. It doesn't have to be all about everybody else it can be incredibly selfish. But when you go to bed at night and you want something different, why do you want it? That's where we start? Why do you want it?
When you start dreaming of a different life? When you start feeling resentful of the life you have? What do you want instead? So I have them start there and I say, for me, and I remind them, mine was selfish I didn't want a boss, I didn't want to be told what to do anymore.
So a lot of them will start out with what do they personally want? It leads to wanting to help other people and help the world in a big way or small way. But I allow them to say let's start with you and why do you want it, and then it starts to kind of morph over the years. But I also tell them, "You absolutely have to have a WHY because it will get really tough."
Lauren: Yeah, it gets really tough and then you have to be able to come back to it.
Amy: Yes, all the time.
Lauren: Which is funny, like that particular reason is why I tell people, I have three children it's also the reason I tell people not to have three children. Because I'm like, because once that third child comes around you got to be like, "This is why I have this child, I felt it, I knew." That's like total mom experience coming out right now, but it's the same thing.
When things get really hard if you don't know why you made that choice what do you have to come back to?
Amy: It is so easy.
Lauren: And that wasn't like, I mean, I say it here because this is where I feel it. Like if it wasn't like here or if it wasn't here, how do you know you made the right choice? Which actually is a question I'm going to ask you. Where do you feel things? Where does Amy Porterfield feel the right decision?
Amy: I feel it right in my chest all the time, right here. Whether it be the wrong decision I feel it here or whether it be the right decision, and I love thinking about where do you feel it.
Because it's so easy to think it but if you're not feeling it throughout your body, I feel like you're missing something really important. So, for me, it's always in my chest either tightness or expansiveness feeling.
Lauren: Yeah. And do you ever stop to go, "Wait a minute, why do I... Oh! Mh! I feel the tightness, I feel the constriction, what does this mean?
Amy: Absolutely. And I ask myself, "Am I just afraid or is my gut telling me I need to go in a different direction?" And I've made the wrong decision many, many times. But then I'll ask myself like, "Okay, where did we go wrong here? And 99.9% of the time I didn't listen to my gut.
Lauren: Yeah, I do want to ask you about that, about fear specifically. I'm glad you brought it up because it's something, in my own experience.
Just in the last, gosh, in the last few weeks, it's like, I was confronted specifically in a situation where someone I know and love, who's a friend, who I just saw fear in a response they gave to me. It was in something totally unrelated but it was like their response was fear and in my heart is like, "That's what fear looks like."
And, so, for weeks, I've been like every time something has come up I've said, "Is that fear?" Like, "Am I saying that out of fear?" So how often does fear creep into the decisions we all make? And then how do we combat fear, certainly in an entrepreneurial journey?
Amy: So I feel fear all the time. So when I'm making decisions in my business, I am afraid of making the wrong decision or affecting someone in the wrong way or whatever it might be. I feel the fear all the time.
But for me, and I think for many people that keep moving forward, I just know that it's just a normal thing. It is just part of our daily like, we breathe, we eat, we feel fear. And so I just think it's very normal and I made a commitment to myself that I will do it afraid.
And I think that's a statement that some people might just need to make, like, "I will do it a fearful, I will do it afraid, but I'm going to do it."
Sometimes people haven't even given themselves permission to do it afraid, just yet, and it makes all the difference. Also, I ask myself, "So if I don't do this, if I don't move forward, if I don't do this interview, if I don't get on that stage, if I don't do whatever, will I regret it?" And if the answer is, "Yes," then there is no discussion.
Lauren: Yeah.
Amy: And that's another thing there's no discussion, I can't overthink this stuff. If I overthink it, if I let myself go too long with making that decision, I will likely choose fear. So I am someone who will make a decision fairly quickly after looking at the facts.
Lauren: Yeah. And I do wonder too, because I think, in our society, we're all so guided to be so analytical. To think so much like, "Does it make sense? Is it quantifiable? Does it read out on the spreadsheet?" But a lot of like jumping out of something secure is not analytical, right?
Amy: No.
Lauren: I mean, and there is fear involved in that. So was there ever a point, once you jumped out, where you're like, whatever this was 2008 Amy or 2010 Amy or whenever you're like, "I'm out." Was there ever a point that you thought, "I've made the wrong choice?" Or were you always like, "You know what, this is hard but I did right?"
Amy: Okay, so there were many times I thought, not that I made the wrong choice, but that I wouldn't be good enough and I'd have to go back for my job. And I'd always tell my husband, "I'm going to have to grovel and beg Tony Robbins to take me back." Because we got into deb, my first year of business my husband decided to become a firefighter, which he eventually did, but he wasn't making any money. I was barely making any money and we got into debt. So this was 2010.
By 2011, I looked at him and I'm like, "I have messed up." Like, "I'm not making enough money to support us. You're not making any money and what did we do? I'm going to have to go back to my job." And he was the one who said, "Absolutely not, we will do whatever it takes to make it work." And it brings me back to everybody needs at least one person in their corner.
Lauren: To believe in you.
Amy: To believe in us. One person. And when you're thinking about your dreams, making a big transition, changing things up. I always tell my students be very selective who you tell.
Not everybody deserves to hear your dreams and when you tell someone who really won't get it, and they tell you, "That is risky, that is scary, don't do this. Maybe just try a little hobby on the side and keep with your nine-to-five." They are projecting their fears on you. Has nothing to do with you.
So if that were to happen, you just say, "Thank you," and you keep moving forward. But I also say keep your early dreams close to your heart.
Lauren: Yeah, the thing that's hard about that too, is it's coming from people who love you and it's said out of love.
Amy: It is.
Lauren: They want to protect you and, so, it's really hard when someone, I mean, this is speaking from experience. When you want the approval of the person you love whoever that person is, you want their approval, you want them to agree with what you're doing. And so when they say, "Not a good idea." It's hard not to be hurt. Did anyone ever hurt you in that process?
Amy: I think my dad was very afraid. Here I was an adult, I was in my early 30s, but he was very afraid, "Quit a corporate job with Tony Robbins, making great money. Why would you ever do that?"
He didn't understand. But I just said, "Dad, you got to trust me. I'm not happy, I need to try something new." And I tried to explain to him why it was important to me. Also in my mind, I'm like, "You ain't paying the bills."
Lauren: You want to pay all my bills? We can have this conversation.
Amy: So I also remind my students, if they're not paying the bills they don't really get an opinion. And so when it's your spouse or someone very close to you, taking the time to explain your why, your heart, is important. Other than that some people just don't even get an explanation.
Lauren: And I'm sure you hear from people a lot that say, "My spouse does not."
Amy: It breaks my heart.
Lauren: "My spouse does not... they don't get it." They don't. And maybe this person understands why they don't get it. But it's still like, "God, there's nothing else I'd want more in this world than to just be supported by my spouse." Like the person you love more in this world than anyone else. What does someone even do in that situation?
Amy: So it happens a lot, unfortunately, I work with a lot of women and their husbands don't necessarily understand why they'd want to do that. And so we talk about it a lot. And the first thing is, yes, sharing your heart. But if that still doesn't work, if they choose to move forward, which I do encourage them to do so. That is why I think it's important that I create the community.
So in my business, one of my things that I feel it's my purpose is to make women be an example of what's possible. Let women know you absolutely can do this, even when not everyone's going to agree with you. I was lucky that my husband did but there's other people in my life that didn't get it.
So we rally around these women and say, "We'll be your support system." I always say I'm their biggest cheerleader. I'll cheer you on when other people are not. But it does take a lot of courage because that is not easy to do something when your spouse. I can imagine Hobie, my husband, didn't believe in me doing this, it would be harder.
Lauren: Yeah. No, I do love that. I do love that's like a tenent of your mission to create community for people, because it's something that I want to do too. Like it's a community around purpose, a community around reclaiming power. How much power do we have as women? How much power, we have all the power and we give it away.
Amy: All the time.
Lauren: And we forget and, I think, we do it for different reasons. I think for some people, maybe it's because you just don't want to, like rock the boat too much. You just, you know, "Just let's all be together, it's okay, it's okay, it's all right. I'll give of myself so that you're happy, no big deal. I'll give of myself so that you're happy, no big deal."
But what starts happening is you give so much that it's like, "What have I done? Nothing's left." And you do have to claw that back.
And there needs to be a community of people that say, "Girl, I got you. I did that, I'm going to help you back through it." Right?
Amy: Oh, my goodness, yes.
Lauren: So to be like a cheerleader for that is so amazing, what a beautiful thing that you're doing.
Amy: I love that you talk about that, because I was many years into my business and I took on a business partner. And, so, I'd almost hit the million-dollar mark in my business. Met this guy, who's younger than me and a mastermind, and we started to talk and kind of he suggested I suggested we work together, but it became he'll be my business partner.
So with the decision, very rapidly, I made the decision very rapidly, and took him on as a business partner. So here's a business I created, my baby that I birthed, and now I bring this guy in and we did amazing things together. Changed lives, made great money, it was an amazing experience on paper. But over the years I was losing a piece of me, I deferred to him for everything.
Now, to back up a little bit, I grew up with a really strict father who called the shots. My mom was not the boss of the house, my dad was. And then I go work for a bunch of men in corporate, publishing, and Tony Robbins and other, Harley Davidson, that was all men. And, so, I work for all these men and I just gave my power away, I really did what you said.
And, so, when I got into this relationship with this partner, I deferred to him about everything. If I was worried, I'd ask him, "What do we do?" If I wasn't sure of an answer, "What do you think we should do?" And all of a sudden, I couldn't even recognize myself in the mirror. And I was building a multimillion-dollar business and didn't feel powerful at all.
And, so, what happened was we got a few years in and I realized this isn't making me happy at all. I took a walk with a friend and she said, "What are you so upset about?" And I said, "Ah, something is off with my business." And she's like, "Let's talk about your partnership." And I said, "Absolutely not. That's off, off topic."
Lauren: Is it because you knew? [Inaudible 00:27:18] you are like so painful to have to bring it out?
Amy: It was so painful and I knew getting out of it was going to be hard. So I thought, "No, I can't do anything about that." She looked at me kind of funny, like, "Really?" I went to bed that night and thought, "Oh, great, I've got to confront this."
So I started talking to my husband about, "I want out of the partnership." And we'd kind of talked about how we're going to do it. But there was a huge chance I would lose the business and this is my everything. I've never given birth to a baby, I have a stepson who I call my own, but I felt like I had birthed this business.
Lauren: That's yours.
Amy: So I went to him and said, "I want out." And over the next year we battled. We couldn't come to a decision of how are we going to dissolve this business that now was like this.
Lauren: It's like a divorce.
Amy: It felt like a divorce, you're exactly right. I cried more than I've ever cried in my entire life and I was crying because I thought, "I'm going to lose this. This isn't... my name is everything."
Lauren: This is what you lived for?
Amy: Yes, I built
Lauren: You built your whole life around this thing.
Amy: Exactly, and it was doing incredibly well. So I could have shut my mouth and just continued because we were making great money, we were changing lives.
But I just knew in my gut, as women we know when something's not right. And so I got to a point that I thought, we had to get lawyers involved, mediation, all that. And I thought, "I'm going to lose the business." And then there's this craziest moment I thought, "Then I'll start over. "Even just telling you now I get chills. "I'll start over."
And I realized I know how to build a business online. I know how to make money, I've done it for now, by then it might have been five, six years and so I thought, "I'll start over." And in that moment all the power came back like,"Aaw!"
Lauren: Was it like warm, because hearing you say that I'm like, "It's warm."
Amy: It was very warm.
Lauren: It was just like, warm rush of power.
Amy: Yes. And my life changed in that moment. Because not only did I declare, "If I lose something I won't give up on myself, I will start over and I can." But also in that moment, I thought, "Wow, I feel like I can do anything." I felt invincible for the first time in my whole life. And so long story short we did come to an agreement.
We went to mediation, we came to an agreement and the very next day, I woke up in the morning, turned on the radio and danced my butt off in my pajamas in my house like, "I did it. This is mine, it's mine." I remember calling my husband and I said, "It's ours, we got it back."
Lauren: Yeah.
Amy: And it was the best day ever. And I will say something that was the hardest time of my entire business. I felt like I had messed up, I had made bad decisions, I had lost myself, but I wouldn't change it for the world. One, he was a great partner when we were partners, I have nothing bad to say about him. And two, it allowed me to realize I'm more powerful than I thought.
Lauren: Right, there's so much power.
Amy: Yeah.
Lauren: And the hard thing too with what you built was that's your name?
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: Like it's literally your name.
Amy: Really my name.
Lauren: It's not like some business with different words, like it's your name. So if the name is not representative of like, or in the image of you then that I can see 1,000% how that would be deeply disturbing. Because you're like, "Wow, yes, I'm doing good things, but this isn't me." Like, "Who is this? This is not my image this is someone else's image."
And then too, I'm sure, you're asking yourself the question, "How can I help people do this if I myself I'm not doing it? Who am I?" You know that thing.
Amy: Exactly.
Lauren: That's really difficult. So you didn't have to start over?
Amy: Thank God.
Lauren: You got to keep going. What changed about your focus or what did you take away? What did you put in after that time? I'm sure you felt super empowered at that point.
Amy: Super empowered. The first thing is, I started taking care of myself, my mental health and my physical health more. I just thought, "Whoa, if it's just me, I got to show up as my very best self."
So I started to put myself first, more so, than I ever have in my life. That was a big change because then I started feeling more confident in my skin, in who I was.
But in addition to that, I started to ask myself, whatever I was creating in my business, "Does this feel good? Does this feel right?" Because if it doesn't feel good, if it's not a hell yes, let's make it a hell no, like, let's not do that.
Lauren: I love that. I've heard that before. And I'm like, "Ah, yes." I just love that. Because, and again, I think it goes back to our ability as women to just, really, I think we are so much more attuned. I think in a lot of ways we've forgotten how to tune in we have to remember.
But the moment that we remember is just a very powerful time. I think we're just a lot quicker with the uptake on following intuition. But what is that? Like if it's not an absolutely, this is what we're doing, absolutely. If it's not that then it needs to be, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Amy: Yes, exactly.
Lauren: Take a step back, because I'm sure we've all made bad choices because something wasn't that absolutely, this is what we're doing.
Amy: I've done it more times than I'd like to admit. So I know what it feels like to make that decision then regret it. So one, my dad always used to say I like am a caveman. Because I have to touch the stone, and it's hot, and then realize don't do that again. I do that in my business.
So I make the mistake and think, "Well, I'm not going to do that again." I've said yes to many things. And when I know it's not the right, yes, is that I feel resentful. I'm mad. Like, "Why is he sending me that email about this, I don't want to deal with it." Or "Why do I have to get on that plane?" I'm thinking, "First of all, I'm the boss." So if I don't like it go talk to the boss.
Lauren: Your fault.
Amy: Yes. And, two, that resentful feeling is, "This wasn't a good fit but you decided to say yes."
Lauren: How do you handle those conversations?
Amy: So there have been a few that I actually just had one recently around my website. Where we've gone all the way down this road and it does not feel right, it's turned into a monster. There's too many moving parts that I don't love, it doesn't feel right. And I had to send emails out this week that said, "With a heavy heart, I'm going to pause this project."
I've learned to pause now instead of saying, "No, I'm going a whole different direction." Just pause for a moment.
Lauren: Yeah, that's nice.
Amy: In my 40s pausing is possible, in my 30s I don't know if I could have done it.
Lauren: It's a nice tool in the toolbox. It's interesting, I think, totally, as we get older we acquire more skills, we acquire more tools. And I think in my, certainly, in my 20s it was the answer was always, yes. "Yes, I'm going to do that." Yes, I wanted to be so known to be able to do all those things.
You get to 30 and it's like, "I can, I can, I can, I can, I can." And then it's like the severing is very hard. But the fact that you can say now, pause. You don't have to sever but let's maybe pause and reevaluate. That's like, to me, a sign of major wisdom.
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: To just be able to say, "You guys, we don't have to make a decision, But we are going to take a moment."
Amy: And then really pay attention to how it feels when you pause. I sent that email and I felt bad I was letting people down. I'm an Enneagram Two, I don't want to let people down, I want to make everyone happy and help everyone.
But I knew people would be very disappointed with my decision, I was well aware. And I sent the email and I felt their disappointment, but then I asked myself, "How do I feel in this pause?" Oh, very calm and I knew it was right.
Lauren: How does an Enneagram Two, because I have a deeply, deeply loved person in my family is an Enneagram Two and wants to think she's not an Enneagram Two. But even still, how does an Enneagram Two decide that they can overcome their need to please others and still do for themselves?
Amy: Lifelong journey, lifelong journey. So I always want to be a Three. Most of my friends are Threes, are you a Three?
Lauren: Funny discussion, no I'm not a [Inaudible 00:34:53]
Amy: Okay, got it. So, when I get to the point that I know I want to make everyone happy. I know I'm going to let people down if I don't do this or I want everybody to like me. And then I ask myself, "Is that truly going to help people in this world if I want to be everything for everybody?"
Because what I learned in marketing and in my business, if you're for everybody you're for nobody. So I take more of a work, a business type, I'd say, mindset around that. If I'm trying to be everything for everybody else, I'm going to water down my message, I'm going to water down myself, and I'm never going to show up truly who I am.
But many times I find myself, "Are you just doing this because you want to make that person happy or you don't want to disappoint?" And literally, I have to stop and ask myself. I guess it comes back to that pause.
Lauren: Do you do it often or are you better at that now?
Amy: Oh, way better now but it's still shows up. But years ago, I would just do it to make them happy. I stayed in that partnership, because I didn't want to disappoint him. So I did it way more than... and then it just became like, "I don't want this quality of life. This isn’t making me right."
Lauren: And I wonder, I mean, it's antithetical to the freedom that you started everything for to begin with, right?
Amy: Right.
Lauren: And I do wonder, I want to bring you back to the sensation of all of that. Was that something you felt here again?
Amy: Oh, absolutely. So when I know I'm doing it to just because I want to make someone else happy or not disappoint, very tight in my chest. I can feel it comes up in my throat and then when I do it for me or for the right reason. I can just breathe.
Lauren: Yeah, and you probably can sleep, right?
Amy: Oh, yeah.
Lauren: Are you someone that has trouble sleeping at all?
Amy: I do, actually. I don't sleep really great but I always make a point to get eight hours.
Lauren: Yeah, okay.
Amy: And, so, I just do my very best and my mind's going a lot.
Lauren: I know, I think that's a problem. Like, for me, I don't know what you've come across that helps you? I've always been a very active person. So I've always run or I've danced or I've done all sorts of things.
But, for me, yoga is the absolutely only thing that I've found that totally clears my mind. Because I mean, they'll say, in yoga it's like this is open-eye meditation is what my teacher always say, "Open-eye meditation." And I think it took me a long time to understand what that really meant.
But like having somebody force you to focus. Having someone force you to look in a mirror and accept whatever showed up today.
Amy: It's powerful.
Lauren: It's an empowering practice if you let it be. So what have you found in your rest, in your self-care that allows you to go, "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. This is what I'm going to do right now."
Amy: Oh my goodness, absolutely meditation, I don't do yoga, but meditation on the Calm app. And it's funny you should say that because this morning I was doing a meditation on worry.
So worry is something that since I've been, really, a little girl, I worry about everything. Now I know how to manage it, but it still comes up in business and whatnot.
And I was listening to this meditation and at the end, she said, "Let me take a line from Winnie the Pooh." And she said "Piglet was in a forest and he looks at Poo and he says, 'Assuming that this tree is going to fall and fall right on us when we're under it. Supposing this tree is going to fall.' And Poo says, 'Supposing it doesn't.'"
And in that moment I heard that and I thought, "Every thought I have that what if this happens?" Worry is what if this happens in the future? What if it doesn't?
And my coach always says, I have always had a business coach, and she says, "You have to give equal play time, if you're going to go negative, you have to give equal play time to the positive." So if you're going to think, "What if all this stuff happens?" Well, what if it happens in a totally different way in your favor.
Equal play time has allowed me to let go of that worry and it has allowed me to sleep better because I let it all just go. But meditation and journaling, journaling for 10 minutes a day.
I don't actually love it but I love how it makes me feel, kind of like exercise, for me, sometimes. I do it because I like the effect of it and the result. So I journal 10 minutes a day and that has helped immensely.
Lauren: I wonder if you have gone back to your journal to start to put some of your writing together?
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: Was that a source for you at all?
Amy: Absolutely. So I recently wrote a book it's coming out next year, and I went back to some notes I had in different old journals. And all of it was a lot of fear, a lot of courage, a lot of doubt, a lot of action. And so I kind of weaved all that into the stories I told throughout the book. But going back, I feel like a totally different person today.
Lauren: Do you think that surprises people, when you expose fear?
Amy: I do. I know some of my students will say, "I look at you and you've got the life you want, the business you want, and you're a leader in your field and that seems like it's easy for you. But when you tell us to have courage, it's easy for you to say."
And I remind them, "Oh, 13 years ago, I was terrified every day. So you have to start somewhere." But I often tell my older stories to remind my students, I was literally exactly where they're at.
Lauren: How do you live the past? And here's what I'm saying how do you live in the past? Where you can constantly connect to that but still allow yourself to push to the future and say, "Wait, there's more. I'm still pushing for more." How does Amy Porterfield do that, connect those two things? Or is it even a toggle that you have to make?
Amy: That's a great question. I think I'm always looking forward into what do I want to do, I'm a big goal setter. So I'll set those goals, I'll put my sights forward. And when I feel scared, I'm often looking back at mistakes I've made or where I've come from and how hard that was and to build this business. And I just tell myself, "I'm not going to live there." So I'll tell my stories, but I try not to live there.
Lauren: Yeah, live in the story.
Amy: Because it will definitely take me back.
Lauren: Yeah, that's interesting. Where was a point or a time that you were like, "Oh, crap, this is really happening? People are actually listening to what I have to say, and oh, my God, I'm making a difference." Was there a point for you that was like that?
Amy: Oh, my gosh, I've had many, many points along the way. I think if I go back to my early, early days, so I sell digital courses teaching people how to do marketing. And so with that, I remember my first successful launch.
I had a few failed launches along the way but my first successful one. And I remember that not only did we make great money, but my students were getting results, and they were sharing their results. And I thought, "Oh, my gosh, this is actually working. "Which is a little scary that I put out a product not sure if it was going to work or not.
But I think for any course creator the first time someone says, "This worked, and I did it." You're like, "Thank God, Hallelujah!"
Lauren: Yeah, like it worked for you and so you are trying to put out your experience, but you hope it translates.
Amy: Oh, it's very scary feeling. But it's the stories from my students. I have a woman that I work with. She's from L.A., three kids, lives in a home with not enough bedrooms for the kids and she has her mom live with her as well, and she is a baker. And she took one of my courses to learn how to create a digital course and she does caramel candy apples. And she created a course teaching other people how to make caramel candy apples.
This woman was working two jobs and was a single mom, so doing it all by herself. And then she creates this business and today her entire life is different and she looks different. She shows up different and our goal is to retire her mom and that's my most favorite thing ever. When I hear those stories, I'm just like, "I'm living my purpose."
Lauren: I never thought of you as someone who did women-focused businesses until now I'm sitting down with you and I'm thinking, "Oh, no, this is very women-focused." Was that an intention?
Amy: You know, it's a great question. I have a lot of gentlemen in my courses, but I do gear more toward women. I was recently interviewed with a bunch of women in the audience but men on the panel with me. And I was saying how I didn't want a boss. I didn't want a man telling me what to do, when to do it and how to do it.
Lauren: You're like, "No offense."
Amy: And they were kind of a little offended and I thought, "I got to be careful how I talk about this." I love men, and I have no problem with men. But I also think that it sometimes women need another woman to say, "Let me show you how I did it." Because the way the men do it is very different, in my industry, very different how a man markets versus a woman very different.
So I wanted to be an example of what's possible, but also come from a very female perspective and it's a different conversation. So but I am careful about it in my marketing, so I never want a gentleman or non-binary person to think that they don't belong in my community. But my heart is with the ladies.
Lauren: Yeah. Tell me about your tattoo. I keep seeing this tattoo, tell me what it says.
Amy: So it says, "Love you more." And it's actually a tattoo I got my husband to agree to have a matching one, which I can't believe he got this on his arm.
But when we first met he said, "I love you." And I was very nervous and for about 15 minutes didn't say it back. So when I did say it, he said, "I will always remind you I love you more, because you didn't say it back." So now when I say, "I love you." He says, "I love you more." So I got a tattoo.
Lauren: So it's matching. Does he have it also on his forearm?
Amy: He has it on his arm too. Which I can't believe he did it but he did.
Lauren: That's great. Do you have any other tattoos?
Amy: I don't, just one.
Lauren: It's funny because I feel like most people once they get one they're like, "Now I'm addicted." Like everything that's super meaningful gets put on.
Amy: I can't imagine I would do that. For some reason I really wanted this but I don't think I want to get another.
Lauren: You won't get like the logo of your business.
Amy: Absolutely not.
Lauren: You're like the most successful digital course on your shoulder?
Amy: No.
Lauren: That's a joke. That's a joke, I'd never expect that. If you did, I'd be like, "Wait, what, really?
Amy: That's a little weird.
Lauren: It's a little weird. Where does Amy Porterfield take Amy Porterfield from here? And is that separate from just Amy?
Amy: Mh-hmm. I'd like to say it's separate from just Amy and I think that would be actually a little bit more healthy. But I started this business with a huge desire to go out on my own and make it work. So Amy Porterfield Inc. feels very close to just Amy the girl. I feel like we're one in the same. I don't work my life away I do four-day work week.
Lauren: I know. I love that you do that, by the way, and I'm sure your employees are like, "Heck, yes." [Inaudible 00:45:02]
Amy: It's so amazing. And I employ 20 full-time people and 19 of them are women. Most of them are mama's and I love that they get to see their moms be in leadership positions and do big things.
My employees run the business like it's their own and that makes me so excited. But I am very closely tied to what I do in my business. And what I want, more than anything, is to reach more women.
So I've been very well-known in the internet marketing space or how to create digital courses space. I want a woman that's never even heard of me to learn that she's got another path if she wants it. And every day I think about there's this woman in a cubicle, working her butt off doing amazing work. She's super talented-
Lauren: Making a lot of money for somebody else.
Amy: Yes, making a lot of money for someone else. And she has this knowing that there's got to be another life for me, there's got to be. But she has no idea how to start it and that's why I wrote my book. Because I thought I want her to stumble across this book not have any idea who I am. But know that, "Oh my gosh, there's a whole other life out there if I want it."
And just to be curious enough, just be curious enough to explore it, even though you're not sure what you would even do.
Lauren: Yeah, does curiosity rule the day, you think? Is that like the questions?
Amy: Absolutely. I really do. Get curious if you have that feeling like "There's got to be something else." What is it then? Start looking, start finding what it might be. And I think that you've got to dabble a little to figure out what it might be.
Lauren: Yeah. And, I mean, certainly this is where all of this came from. Like, for me, in my own personal experience I got to this point, I've got all of the awards, I've got kids, I've got a loving husband, I've got the accolades that go along with it. And then it's like, "Wow!" Me looking around feeling incredibly ungrateful to ask this question. But now like deshaming the question, which is, "Is this it?"
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: I did everything I was supposed to do. Is this it? And realizing, wow, okay. For me, that became a signifier that there was more, there was more, and I needed to find it, and what is that?
So it started with questions. All of the questions, the questions that I could never answer, the ones that I pushed down that I wouldn't allow myself to answer. And finally going, "If I don't answer them now, who am I? Who am I? What do I have to bring if I'm not brave enough or courageous enough to answer the questions?"
Amy: That's so true?
Lauren: Do you want to play a game?
Amy: Yeah.
Lauren: Okay, so I've got these questions that I like to ask every single person that comes and sits down in the chair that you're sitting down in. Okay, so, I mean, you may not see it as game but I see it as a game.
Amy: I get very nervous in these moments.
Lauren: Okay, well, it's all you have to answer it's the things that are authentic to you. Like, you're the only one who knows the answer. So whatever you answer is the right answer.
Amy: Is the right answer.
Lauren: Okay, so when was the best time in your life?
Amy: The best time in my life would be when I quit my job, I think is the best time. Although it's the hardest time there's no better feeling than, "Oh, my God, I did it."
Lauren: Yeah. Okay. How about the worst time? What was the worst time in your life?
Amy: Getting out of that partnership. That's the worst time in all of my life.
Lauren: Did you lose a lot of sleep? Cry a lot of tears?
Amy: Lots of tears, lots of fear.
Lauren: How many months did that last, that experience?
Amy: It lasted about a year.
Lauren: Oh, wow.
Amy: So it was a big experience.
Lauren: What is something about your nature that you've either overcome or you continue to overcome?
Amy: It's that worrying. That feeling of always being worried. What's going to happen? What if I make a wrong turn? So that's why I do a lot of the meditation and journaling, I just journal out the worries.
Lauren: Yeah, good, good for you. When was there a turning point in your life that you were like, "Everything's different now, here it is."
Amy: So when I got out of the partnership. About two weeks later I was on stage at my own event and I wasn't planning to sell anything, but I needed to pay for the partnership to end. So I thought-
Lauren: Real talk,
Amy: "Here we go. Here we go." So I remember getting on stage, we had created an opportunity for this audience. And it was a high-ticket $5,000 opportunity, nothing I've ever sold before. And I just thought, "If you wanted this bad, you wanted this to end, here you go, let's go." And I don't love selling on stage, but I also love pushing myself to do things I need to do.
In that moment I felt different and I knew we were going to do something different, and that changed everything that day.
Lauren: Did it translate?
Amy: It absolutely did. Paid the bills and people still talk about that one special event I did, so that's good.
Lauren: Oh, I love that. When was a moment of clarity for you where you were like, "Oh, everything makes sense now."
Amy: Mh-hmm, such a great question. A moment of clarity. I moved from California to Nashville a year ago and I talk publicly about this on my podcast. I went through really bad depression and anxiety.
Lauren: Once you got here?
Amy: Once I got here. And I've gone through that low-level on and off in my life, but this was like roaring. And I think, and this sounds so silly, but the weather affected me immensely. I'm a Southern California girl.
Lauren: Hey, dude, okay, listen, I'm from South Carolina and I moved here and I'm like, "It's so gray." What's all... the rain it gets me sad.
Amy: Thank you. Exactly.
Lauren: Seasonal defective disorder is a real thing.
Amy: Okay, I had it. I didn't know that was the thing, but I'm like, why am I so sad? And then we moved into a home that needed a lot of work and I didn't have any friends, and the whole thing I was like, "Oh my gosh, I think I made a wrong decision."
So for a year, I felt really, really bad. And then I said, "I cannot continue to feel this way. We're not going back to California, we're going to make this work."
And I started to do the work on myself workout more, eat better, the meditating the journaling, getting a life coach, I did all the things. And I feel so dramatically different. I feel clear, I feel focused and I know I'm supposed to be here, but that took a good year.
So that clarity has come like over the last year. Plus, writing this book and getting all the stories, all the teachings I wanted out, I feel really grounded in that.
Lauren: I love that for you.
Amy: Thank you.
Lauren: Why did you move to Nashville?
Amy: So my husband and I wanted to make a change. We wanted to kind of, our son went away to college. And we thought, "Well, now or never let's do it." And I thought it was just such a fun, great idea, little did I know I'd struggle as much as I did.
He's thriving. He looks like a mountain man, country man, the full beard and he looks like really sexy as a southerner but I struggled.
Lauren: What is something that you find yourself saying a lot lately. Any particular phrases or words coming out of your mouth?
Amy: I've already won. So I say this one a lot, "I've already won." I have a good girlfriend we voice text every day about business stuff. She's like my mentor and I'm her mentor kind of thing, and we talk every day. And when I'm struggling with something, she'll remind me, "You've already won. You're doing it, you're in it, you're making it happen."
Lauren: I Love that.
Amy: And I love that because I just own where I'm at right now, no matter what happens or what happened in the past, right now I'm doing good, I'm fine. So I love that.
Lauren: What is your purpose?
Amy: My purpose is to help that woman in that cubicle to realize there's something else out there for you. And you are absolutely capable of creating the life and the business you absolutely desire. So my purpose is that she finds me, she finds my message. So I'm doing everything in my power to do so.
Lauren: And do you feel that here when you talk about that woman?
Amy: Yes, it's all here. Yes, I just know her, I feel her, and I have been her, and that's like the magic of it. I know everything she's thinking and feeling right now. So if I could be an example of what's possible, I want to make sure she knows that she's capable.
Lauren: And the last question with our fun little game is when did you realize your purpose was your purpose?
Amy: You know, it probably wasn't until about two years ago. And I think this is an important question and I want some people to hear this that I didn't know my purpose when I started my online business. I didn't know my purpose years into it. I knew what I was good at, I knew I could help people.
But today when I wake up, I think of her every day and that happened about two years ago, when I started to explore the book and the topic I wanted to write about. I thought, "Oh, this is what I meant to do." So it took me a very long time.
Lauren: I'm curious, specifically about the book, why do you think you needed to write that message at that point you started, and why release it now?
Amy: So when I quit my corporate job there's no roadmap. I didn't have any women to talk to. I didn't know how they did it. And, so, I was winging it the whole time and it was pretty messy. If I had a guidebook to someone not only taught me how to quit a job and how to start something new. But then the book, literally, teaches you how to do an online business.
So it's very field work kind of thing and there's not a lot of women who have written business books like this. So I thought, "I'm going to go because I know that it can be so very valuable."
Lauren: Yeah, and I do love everything about your communication style is so encouraging. I just love that.
Amy: I hope so.
Lauren: I love that in everything you write and everything you do, it's, "Hey, if this doesn't work for you, no problem, guess what? I'm still cheering you on."
Amy: Yes.
Lauren: Every time I read that in your stuff I'm like, "Yes, she is. Yes, she is." It just feels very authentic and I think it does come back to this idea of creation of community around this realization is understanding that you're pretty powerful.
Amy: Absolutely.
Lauren: You're pretty powerful girl and I'm here for you.
Amy: So very true. Yes.
Lauren: Amy Porterfield, thank you so much.
Amy: Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.
